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posted by [personal profile] stellaluna at 01:34pm on 20/02/2006
Oh, look. Stellaluna is avoiding her story.

Although if I'm writing character-related thinky posts instead, that still counts as working on it, right? Sort of. In a roundabout, stretching-the-point kinda way.



Or, to be more specific, why writing from Mac's POV is hard; although he's a difficult character at all times, I find him somewhat easier to tackle when he's being viewed through someone else's eyes.

It's for all the obvious and usual reasons: he's a very internal person, with a strong tendency to keep almost everything to himself; he doesn't demonstrate emotion or, as I've suspected for a long time, even like to admit to himself that he has emotions. Not any emotion that would make him vulnerable, anyway. Emotions like anger at perps or professional pride he can handle. Anything that would suggest he has a soft underbelly is something that needs to be pushed away as quickly as possible, because it's dangerous, because vulnerability is weakness. Showing people your vulnerability also shows them how to hurt you.

Because he doesn't express himself easily or willingly, and because even inside his head he's very constrained in what he will and won't allow himself to think about, and very cautious about the ways in which he's willing to express himself, it becomes tricky to write from his POV. Because he does have emotions, even if they're usually well-buried. How do you express the emotion when he is so internal, and when he's frequently not aware, himself, of what he's feeling? How do you get past the external masks of Cop and Soldier and Boss to show the person underneath?

He also can't be an automaton, or so stiffly formal that he reads like a visitor from another century, or like a textbook or a field manual (although sometimes he can sound like that when he's in speechmaking mode). He's still a man living in New York City in the 21st century, and although he's not a libertine, he's also not a priss, or naive. Mac's been to war; he's killed people. And he now works in law enforcement in a densely-populated major city. He's well aware of the world and its seamy underside. So how do you show that person, and show those emotions, while still staying true to the extremely reserved man he is -- and, furthermore, how do you avoid tipping the balance the other way?

Honestly, I still don't entirely know. I've been writing in this fandom for a little over a year (!), and I still feel like I don't have much of a clue. I can do it, and in looking at my own stories, I think I've been able to find ways to get at that personality and those emotions, but every single time it feels like I'm groping my way in a dark room, fumbling for a light switch. With Mac -- and I think this holds true for all characters, really, but it strikes me as especially important for someone like him -- writing from his POV becomes as much, or more, about what he doesn't say as what he does say. What is he avoiding dealing with or talking about, and why is he doing that dance of avoidance?

I've used the metaphor of negative space more than once in my stories (most recently in "A Game of You"), and I think it's a useful one for purposes of character. Negative space is about what's not there, and by looking at what isn't, we should, in theory, be able to shed a light on what is there. The things that are missing, that are now gone or have never been there, illuminate what does exist. So what Mac doesn't say tells us as much about him as what he does say; the words he rejects are as important as the words he chooses.

The same is true of his actions: what he doesn't do, or won't do, means as much as what he does do. Notice how often he'll reframe personal conversations in professional terms, how comfortable he is congratulating Danny for being put on the promotion grid in "Outside Man," and how he's very capable, in "Crime & Misdemeanor," at ripping Danny a new one for doing an end run around instructions in order to keep working on a case. He's similarly perfectly capable of picking a fight with Stella over professional methods in "Officer Blue."

When it comes to the personal, though, he shuts down. Note in "Officer Blue" how much less comfortable he is reconciling with her at the end of the episode, and how, although he means every word of his apology, he's only able to say the words with great difficulty. Even more importantly, notice how he phrases that apology in terms of the professional, though it's something that's very clearly personal to him: he's only able to tell Stella how much he cares for her, and how much she means to him, by telling her that she's "a fine CSI" and that he "wouldn't do this job without [her]."

He similarly flails when talking to Danny in "Tanglewood" about the need to belong and the issue of joining, or not joining, the gang. Danny is seeking a personal conversation, and Mac seems to try to do that, but quickly falls back on his standard speech about how he joined the Marines because he wanted to serve his country, and how Danny is a smart guy because he didn't get himself involved with Tanglewood -- something Mac states very quickly and very definitively, without really giving Danny a chance to explain otherwise.

The conversation is also notable and, I think, telling, for something I've talked about before: the fact that Mac gives two different reasons for wanting to join the Corps, and seems unaware, willfully or otherwise, that they are two different reasons. Hell, I'll just quote what I said when I wrote about this in my posts about the S1 DVDs, because it sums up what I'm talking about here:

[Mac] says that he understands the need to belong to something (which goes along with what he tells the mother of the murdered boy early on), then follows that up by saying that he would have done anything to join the Marines, and gives his reason as *wanting to serve his country*.

It's not that I doubt Mac's motivation there, and certainly both things can be true, but what he doesn't seem to connect is that joining the Marines *because he wants to belong to something* and joining the Marines *because he wants to serve his country* are *not the same thing*. They're both valid reasons, they can both be true, and they can be complementary motivations. But they're not the same thing, not for a second.


So the big challenge for me when writing Mac is trying to figure out both what he's not saying and why he's not saying it. And because he is so internal, so reserved, this can often be vastly more difficult to suss out than it is for someone like Stella or Danny. Neither of them are an open book, either, but they're both much more expressive -- and much more vivid in the ways they express themselves -- than Mac will ever be.

Once I've figured out what's really going on in his head and what he's feeling, the trick is then figuring out how to show that while still keeping him believably reserved -- without, as I mentioned earlier, then tipping the balance the other way and making him much too formal or uptight. He shouldn't ever be Weepy Emo Boy -- none of them should be, actually -- but he also can't sound like a forensics textbook.

I have no easy answers for how to either achieve or maintain that balance.



I also woke up this morning with most of the story arc of the upcoming fifth installment of the "Light From a Dead Star" series in my head. I have no idea why, or where it came from, but I accept it as the gift that it is.
Music:: Project Runway marathon on Bravo
Mood:: working
There are 14 comments on this entry. (Reply.)
 
posted by [identity profile] fruitbat00.livejournal.com at 10:12pm on 20/02/2006
I so get where you are coming from with Mac he is so internal and it is difficult to delve into his character and provide insights into him without losing what is essentially Mac Taylor. It is easier to see him through others eyes especially Stella's.

It is so easy for the reader to read a story and then comment that this does not sound like Mac. Try writing him he can be a complete bastard to deal with. (This from someone that loves him to bits....so sue me I am a card carrying Mac slut.) But I think you have managed to capture him so well in your stories. You have presented us with some great insights into my fav ex Marine. And long may you continue.
 
posted by [identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/stellaluna_/ at 07:49pm on 21/02/2006
Oh, he *is* a complete bastard to deal with. Even aside from the many, many times when he (and this goes for Danny, too) says or does the exact wrong thing at the exact wrong moment, he's just plain stubborn. Trying to get inside the head of such an internal character, and figuring out what's going on with him and what makes him tick, is an enormous challenge. It's exhausting to write him, and to make sure that his narration is in character without becoming dull. Danny and Stella make for much more vivid narrators, and if they're not always willing to talk about everything that's going on in their heads, they're at least more open about expressing themselves.

Poor crazy Marine. I'm quite fond of him, for all my complaining.
 
posted by [identity profile] scarletts-awry.livejournal.com at 10:23pm on 20/02/2006
Ah yes, the dance of avoidance. I know thee well. Indeed, I've been engaged in thee most this afternoon.

he doesn't demonstrate emotion or, as I've suspected for a long time, even like to admit to himself that he has emotions. Not any emotion that would make him vulnerable, anyway. Emotions like anger at perps or professional pride he can handle.

oh dear, all emotions make a person vulnerable. Anger at perps and professional pride don't really count as *emotions* so much as... as proper and sensible reactions to his everyday life.

But seriously, I think this is one of the places he and Danny are quite alike, even if they ulitmately have different strategies for achieving the same end.

With Mac -- and I think this holds true for all characters, really, but it strikes me as especially important for someone like him -- writing from his POV becomes as much, or more, about what he doesn't say as what he does say. What is he avoiding dealing with or talking about, and why is he doing that dance of avoidance?

*nodnod* Absolutely. I remember when I was writing the part of Collateral Damage where Mac thinks giving Danny a handjob out back of Sullivan's will fix everything--there's a moment where he looks down the alley, and it was a conscious decidsion on my part that he's looking down the alley--and he's only doing so because then he's *not* looking at Danny. In that sense--in terms of what does and does not happen, what is and is not said--I think you really can describe Mac as a negaitve character. The spaces, the absences, the silences are what define him every bit as much as his actual actions.

the trick is then figuring out how to show that while still keeping him believably reserved -- without, as I mentioned earlier, then tipping the balance the other way and making him much too formal or uptight. He shouldn't ever be Weepy Emo Boy -- none of them should be, actually -- but he also can't sound like a forensics textbook.

That's so true. It's easy to force something too far, but it's also truly unsettling. The strategy I've tried to work with (and I've honestly got no idea how successful it actually is with Mac or with the original character from which I imported it over) is to keep the narration as sense oriented as possible. It's a subtle way getting information across, but you still can get a surprising lot across. 'Course, it doesn't terribly much protect you from the "forensics textbook" end of the spectrum. And I always err on the "leave it unsaid" side of the spectrum. Or I try to.

I also woke up this morning with most of the story arc of the upcoming fifth installment of the "Light From a Dead Star" series in my head. I have no idea why, or where it came from, but I accept it as the gift that it is.

I just made a terribly interesting noise. One that I'm not sure how to replicate via written text.
 
posted by [identity profile] scarletts-awry.livejournal.com at 10:25pm on 20/02/2006
What the hell is with the abundance of italics? Am I the only one seeing that?
 
posted by [identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/stellaluna_/ at 08:05pm on 21/02/2006
Anger at perps and professional pride don't really count as *emotions* so much as... as proper and sensible reactions to his everyday life.

*snicker* Good point, and how silly of me -- anger and professional pride are just plain old *logical* for Mac. He doesn't need those silly emotions. He's got a badge!

And yes, this is just one more example of the ways in which he and Danny are way too much alike, and why they get on each other's nerves so.

there's a moment where he looks down the alley, and it was a conscious decidsion on my part that he's looking down the alley--and he's only doing so because then he's *not* looking at Danny. In that sense--in terms of what does and does not happen, what is and is not said--I think you really can describe Mac as a negaitve character. The spaces, the absences, the silences are what define him every bit as much as his actual actions.

I remember the moment you're talking about, and thought it worked really well for conveying Mac's state of mind at that moment -- and was so much better than blatantly stating what was going through his head would have been. And I definitely agree on Mac being an essentially negative character in terms of how much his absences and silences define him. I can see the whole idea of negative space being sort of extended metaphor for what they do as CSIs, because what they're always faced with is the aftermath, the pieces that are left, and they have to try to find some way to fill in the empty spaces. And it fits Mac, too; he's defined by the not-there as much as he is by the *there*.


The strategy I've tried to work with (and I've honestly got no idea how successful it actually is with Mac or with the original character from which I imported it over) is to keep the narration as sense oriented as possible. It's a subtle way getting information across, but you still can get a surprising lot across. 'Course, it doesn't terribly much protect you from the "forensics textbook" end of the spectrum. And I always err on the "leave it unsaid" side of the spectrum. Or I try to.

I think that's the side I tend to err on, as well. I'd rather make it a bit *too* understated or unspoken than to have Mac be too over-the-top or to have him saying/revealing too much. And I agree with you on keeping the narration sense-oriented. It just seems to work particularly well with characters like Mac who *are* so internal; the details of their environment, and what they notice, or what we choose to spotlight, can work really well for conveying things that there'd otherwise be no easy or graceful way of revealing.

I just made a terribly interesting noise. One that I'm not sure how to replicate via written text.

I think I made a series of pathetic squeaky noises when I realized just *what* story my brain had apparently spent the night plotting out. And I didn't write the first 500 words or so of it yesterday, oh no, not at all.
 
posted by [identity profile] binglexjells.livejournal.com at 10:41pm on 20/02/2006
I think Mac may have been easier to write before the death of his wife. :/

For varied reasons, some of which I can't put my finger on, much less explain coherently , I think that, while still a reserved, private person, Mac was substantially more open [in a manner of speaking... ahem.] before his wife died, and the fear of being vulnerable and seen as such was intensified.

I think that, although he's seen the world and what an awful place it can be, with his wife he didn't think about that so much, and more about her. When Claire died, he had no one else to think about, and the reality of just how tragic and evil the world can be hit him a lot harder than it ever did when he was with the Marines, and he withdrew - maybe he saw his wife as vulnerable, especially at the end of her life, and maybe he thinks this played a part in her death. So he withdraws, becomes a lot more private than he ever was, because it's the vulnerability that killed his wife that he can't bring himself to show. Or maybe it's because he feels he failed his wife, and being vulnerable isn't an option, he has to keep up the strong cop-slash-soldier-slash-boss facade and save the world -- or as much of it as he can -- because he couldn't save his wife.

Obviously, this is all speculation, and I do agree that Mac can be a pain in the ass to write at times because it's what he doesn't say that's the more important thing. He can say - hell, he can say anything but he won't say the important thing. Which infuriates me to no end.

 
posted by [identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/stellaluna_/ at 08:14pm on 21/02/2006
I think that, while still a reserved, private person, Mac was substantially more open [in a manner of speaking... ahem.] before his wife died, and the fear of being vulnerable and seen as such was intensified.

I agree with this, and I think it's a big factor in how Mac is today. He's probably never been the most open person in the world, and his tendency has probably always been toward being reserved and essentially very private about his emotions, but I think Claire's death was a huge factor in causing him to close himself off even more. Stella says it herself in "Officer Blue" when they're talking in the locker room, when she mentions how she misses "the old Mac Taylor." He didn't used to be as closed off as he was, and I think that Claire's death, especially given how sudden it was, made him less willing than ever to expose his emotions, or to allow himself to be vulnerable to anyone.

So he withdraws, becomes a lot more private than he ever was, because it's the vulnerability that killed his wife that he can't bring himself to show. Or maybe it's because he feels he failed his wife, and being vulnerable isn't an option, he has to keep up the strong cop-slash-soldier-slash-boss facade and save the world -- or as much of it as he can -- because he couldn't save his wife.

*nod* Exactly. I think he feels a tremendous amount of responsibility for her death. Of course, there's no way he *could* have prevented it or saved her or changed anything, but that irrational guilt suggests that he could have, if he'd just paid closer attention or done something different. He needs to be the strong person, and be the one to save everybody, while at the same time not allowing himself to get pulled under by the weight of anyone else's life. So he keeps people at arm's length. I think he also may have seen Claire as a refuge from everything he'd seen in the Corps, that she was one person who was never going to be killed in war or blown up on a battlefield -- and he was wrong. So that means there are no safe places for him. It's also, I think, a form of survivor's guilt, something he may already have felt after his time in the Corps; it's probably significant that the *one* solid fact we have about his time of service is that he was in Beirut in 1983.

He can say - hell, he can say anything but he won't say the important thing. Which infuriates me to no end.

Or he'll say the exact *wrong* thing. Lord, he's a stubborn character. He makes me want to pound my head into the keyboard.

You made a lot of sense! I hope I did, too, because *my* caffeine is just starting to kick in. Hence, I ramble as well.
 
posted by [identity profile] gin200168.livejournal.com at 01:55am on 21/02/2006
Ha. The story can't kill you if you procrastinate, right? ;-) What about working on the random suprise they sprung on you that you shared yesterday? He seemed to be pretty on track it it....

I also woke up this morning with most of the story arc of the upcoming fifth installment of the "Light From a Dead Star" series in my head. I have no idea why, or where it came from, but I accept it as the gift that it is.

Which you wouldn't tell me about last night.

Ok, so not all of that seems to be absorbing in my head, try as I might.

But it is a fine line one must dance, not making Mac into an automaton (which I am worried I did... ) and making him overly demonstrative. That's why I like Coastalverse, because you don't make him that way, but rather, only giving the bits and pieces that Danny ferrets out.

And I think a LOT of his demonstrative ability (or lack thereof) is based on who he is talking to. Danny would get it the most, albeit not always in a good way. (ie. blowing up on him in OtJ) Stella might get some ouf of him except for the example of before where he couldn't ACTUALLY say something without twisting it into the professional.

Also the fact that Danny and Stella, who are the most pivotal characters around him, are so much more technicolor than he is, it does seem to accentuate his.. lack of sharing? Not a good word.

His mystery is part of his attraction. That and the "manly competence + man in uniform" thing. He's compelling because of his actions and what bits of personality that we get to see too, and we live for more. Especially the little random bits that we do get. They string us along....

Oh and they still won't share, BTW... grrrrrrrrr
 
posted by [identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/stellaluna_/ at 08:23pm on 21/02/2006
With any luck, I'm gonna work on that section of story tonight. I really want to get through all of that, since it'll help me with the later sections.

Danny would get it the most, albeit not always in a good way. (ie. blowing up on him in OtJ) Stella might get some ouf of him except for the example of before where he couldn't ACTUALLY say something without twisting it into the professional.

I think Danny and Stella are both good in their own ways at getting him to...if not open up and say what's on his mind, at least get closer to doing so. They're willing to take the time to listen and understand, and even if he does frequently still fall back on the professional bullshit speeches, well, Stella knows what he really means. And Danny may too, someday, if they're just able to get past their defensiveness with each other.
 
posted by [identity profile] gin200168.livejournal.com at 07:14am on 22/02/2006
They're willing to take the time to listen and understand, and even if he does frequently still fall back on the professional bullshit speeches, well, Stella knows what he really means. And Danny may too, someday, if they're just able to get past their defensiveness with each other.

Which'll be... oh NEVER. And Stella's a frickin genius, that's why she can figure him out. ;-)
ext_2135: narnia: home sweet home (soraki) (Default)
posted by [identity profile] bedlamsbard.livejournal.com at 02:09am on 21/02/2006
*shrugs* I just write and he flows out of my fingers.

Mac is a lunatic, albeit a very sane one.

I also woke up this morning with most of the story arc of the upcoming fifth installment of the "Light From a Dead Star" series in my head. I have no idea why, or where it came from, but I accept it as the gift that it is.

STARVERSE!!!!!!
 
posted by [identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/stellaluna_/ at 07:22pm on 21/02/2006
Mac is a lunatic, albeit a very sane one.

I think that may be one of the most apt descriptions of Mac I've seen.

STARVERSE!!!!!!

Alas. Because that other giant story isn't killing me *enough*. I need to bring myself more woe.
 
posted by [identity profile] slash-girl.livejournal.com at 04:00am on 21/02/2006
On a slight tangent: I've been doing a lot of icon making recently and it is very, VERY difficult to find Mac with an expression on his face. I've got the first season dvds so have made my own caps...I've d/l second season caps but, man. Okay, so he has an expression but it's the same one most of the time. Sometimes he has that little smile and sometimes he even shows anger...but so many seem to be slight variations on the same expression. Very frustrating. *headdesk* (Although for my icon tonight I did find him smiling.)

I've got a Mac piece I started ages ago and which hasn't gone very far because I find it hard to get the balance in his voice right. Although another story I've got mostly done and which is Christmas related (don't ask, shovelling snow does weird things to my brain, appparently)which is Mac-centric and for some reason, I was able to pin him down better. Well, I hope so anyways. I also hope that I'll finish it someday. It's not that I don't like a challenge, I just worry about writing Mac OOC, probably more than anyone else on the show.

You DO a very good job of writing Mac POV...but I think what you've said about him in this post is very accurate and true; very insightful. See, avoidance isn't always a bad thing. ;)
 
posted by [identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/stellaluna_/ at 07:38pm on 21/02/2006
I know exactly what you mean about Mac's facial expressions. He just doesn't *do* the big, emotional changes that register on his face, except very occasionally, in circumstances of extreme stress. Flack was right in that one episode: Mac really does have the ultimate poker face. Which, then, yes, it makes finding something different to use in a Mac icon so difficult! The shots of him ogling the katana have been good for that.

Although another story I've got mostly done and which is Christmas related (don't ask, shovelling snow does weird things to my brain, appparently)which is Mac-centric and for some reason, I was able to pin him down better. Well, I hope so anyways. I also hope that I'll finish it someday. It's not that I don't like a challenge, I just worry about writing Mac OOC, probably more than anyone else on the show.

I worry about it too, because I think it's really, really easy to get him wrong and go off the rails with his portrayal. And it's so *frustrating*, because to write him, I need to be able to get inside his head, and he's very resistant to opening up at all. Which also raises the question of how we as writers *can* move him forward in a story, or show him believably opening up, or at least taking steps in that direction. It's such a delicate balancing act.

See, avoidance isn't always a bad thing. ;)

Heh, no! And stuff like this *does* help me to figure things out. I actually got rather a lot done yesterday; it's just that none of it relates to That Story. Oh, well -- tonight, I hope.

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